Chances are you have played a cash game against one of these guys. These are the people who show up at your table with the minimum buy in. Shortstack players are annoying players to play against. I try to avoid tables that have too many shortstacks because it is very hard to get value out of them. You might hit quads against them and all you are going to get is the minimum buy-in, lame. I would much rather hit my quads against a player who is playing with a full stack.
I have found that these short stack players usually play one of two ways. Some of them play very tight pre-flop so when they have a hand they try to get their minimum buy-in into the pot as quick as possible. I think these type of shortstackers are a bit more rare than the next type but still pretty easy to play against (raise their blinds and fold to their re-raises or their initial raises). The second type of short stack player is the one who likes to call a lot of hands pre-flop. They want to see a bunch of flops so they can push all in when they hit any part of the flop. They often will call you pre-flop with just about anything. This is the type of shortstacker I would like to talk about for the rest of this post.
When you think about it, this type of player is pretty easy to play against post-flop. When they hit any part of the flop they will usually bet or raise you. If you do not have anything, you should probably just give up the pot when they bet or raise your bet. The good news is they are typically very reluctant to call unless they hit the flop OR are on a straight/flush draw. This means you can continuation bet the flop (even just 60%-70% of the pot if you have nothing) and they will fold when they have missed.
Now, lets say they called your continuation bet on the flop, now what? Well, it should be good news for you because it tells you a lot about their hand. I find when they simply call your bet it usually means that they are weak (maybe hit bottom pair) or they are on some sort of draw. Some would say they could be slowrolling you with a made hand like trips but if that is the case they really can not hurt you too much because they are short stacked. If I have a hand on the flop I do not worry about them having trips, if they have it I lose the minimum buy in which is not a big deal because usually you can lose much more when an opponent hits trips against you. You probably are not going to fold top pair to a shortstack so lets not worry about hands like trips. Also for the rest of the hand lets say we have top pair top kicker. At this stage of the hand they are ALMOST pot committed with any 2 cards. Remember, they called your pre-flop raise and your flop bet, chances are they have already invested 25%-30% of their chips into the pot.
I think this is the point of the hand where many players might find themselves messing up, I know I did. So what do we know about this player right now? I think we have established that they either have a weak pair, or they are on some sort of draw almost all the time. This is where you probably need to do some thinking. Did the turn bring a card that could have made them a flush or a straight? If it did you might want to think about slowing down. Slowing down is usually fine here because the player will usually go all-in if he hit his flush or straight, or if they have that little weak pair will be happy to check it down. However, lets say the turn brought a blank…now what do you do with your top pair top kicker? Usually in a cash game I would try and keep the pot low, after all, you only have 1 pair. My bet would typically be about 50% of the pot. If you make a bet that is 50% of the pot against this player that bet should represent about 33%-50% of the players remaining stack. What is going to happen when you make a bet like that? Against a shortstack it is easy, just like any player they will fold, call, or raise. I think usually they will fold if their bottom pair did not upgrade on the turn. If they still have their draw I find they probably call most of the time (some of the time they might push all in with a semi-bluff if they think you are weak but I think this is usually rare as well). Lets say they call your 50% of the pot turn bet (I put them on a draw type hand now).
Now the river comes…If they missed their draw it is easy. You bet and they fold hand over. Now if they HIT their draw they are all in 100% of the time. What does that mean to you? That all in bet is such a small percentage of the pot at this point that you have to call. You make the call and yup, you lose.
As mentioned I think our turn bet was the problem. A bet of 50% of the pot is fine against someone who is full stack because you want to keep the pot low. Against our shortstacker however, I think it is wrong. Like I highlighted above they are going to call your turn bet with a draw and if they hit you are still going to pay them off because it will be such a small remaining bet. I feel when we are playing against a shortstack player who we think is on a draw we need to increase our turn bets with hands like top pair top kicker. Instead of a bet of 50% of the pot, I think one of 80%-100% of the pot is better. This ends up being almost all of their remaining chips which when they are on a draw, it seems like they always will make the call. Sure, you still lose when they hit but remember, you were going to pay them off if they hit anyways so why are we keeping the pot low? I say we make the bigger bet because now, when they miss their draw instead of them folding and us missing out on that money we got it on the turn.
I know that was a bit long but I hope I explained my thoughts about this type of player so that everyone could understand. If you have any questions please do not hesitate to let me know. Also, if you disagree with anything above please let me know so we can have a healthy discussion about it.
Jim
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I hate “nits”!
?hey are so proud about their tiny win and they believe that they are great poker players. They are like these guys… Paying $1 to play a 25,000 players tournament and they are sooo careful with their stack on the bubble, because they want to get paid! Then they win a dollar and after 3 or more hours of playing they are happy!
Of course there are very skilled short-stack players out there and believe me they are dangerous, because of the reasons Jim wrote about. They can get you trable! (They have 50BB-70BB and they dont play micro or low limits). You see.. shortstaking is an art!
About our “nits”.
Avoid them!
Change table and never sit when there are more than one of them.
If you want to bet, bet small. They are going to fold anyway.
They are not thinging your bet in relation with the pot, but in relation with their stack (as Jim mentioned). You can steal the pot easily.
A note on your (really interesting) post, Jim.
When you are sure that your opponent has a draw, bet him big.
The odds are the same.
Make him pay.
There is not a reason to keep the pot small if you know you have the best hand.
If you are not sure… Just be careful and go as you said.
Ah.. Something else.. Don’t chase your draw when you are in a pot with a shortstack (fold pre-flop if you can, and never raise with connectors or something). They don’t give you implied odds!
Great post…
Give us more!
P.S. Sorry for my English…
Thanks Marios. No need to apologize for your English, it is just fine.
LOL I would never change tables bc there is a couple of shorties there. Its part of the game and if you are primarily a cash player who wants to get into tourneys you better learn how to play with and against short stacks. Speaking as a person who used to go to the 10 SL table at 101 with the min $400 buy in, I played no different than if I had $1200 like everyone else. Position, pot odds, reads, and a little luck help or hinder regardless of stack size. And shorties are the bomb to go against, esp for a female bc for some reason, guys dont equate women with check raising. So being on or having one or more at a table can improve your game and make you some money.
If anyone buys in for the min and plays there short stack like that,i want to play them lol. there playing there short stack like a full stack and really just throwing away there money and have no idea what they are doing buying in with so little chips.there obviously just a donk calling station.I would get it all in on the flop vs. them. They obviously got a wide range if there calling a raise with any two.And if there floating you with btm pair that even worse with a short stack. these short stackers are terrible.You should be playing really tight and get it all in pre flop or on the flop no matter what with a draw or whatever if your a short stack.i would mostly just value bet these guys to death as they bleed off their stack with really bad hands.
well i think there is a difference in the quality of short stack players at a 2 5 table vs a 10 20. You cannot stick shorties solely into the 2 catagories as mentioned above.
As I wrote before…
In higher stakes are very skilled shortstakers but they never play with less than 50BB. Usualy they have 70BB. Again these guys are 2% of the players our there.
Kim…
With 1/3 buy-in, I don’t think you can play with odds or reads or other poker concepts you rely more on the luck and your femininity.
And then… poor men… We are trying to calculate our equity in a pot!!
If I was against Jeniffer Tilly I would fold anything!! Just to stay in the game. lol
Something else…
There are two tables.
On the one, there is a full stacked loose passive fish losing money again and again.
On the other there is a shorty who break your nerves going all in after every raise.
Are you gonna stay to the second table to test your skills?
Sorry I am already to the other because I need this guy’s money!
wow you have some nerve mario…if i relied on luck and femininity then i would not do well overall at all and I am very much up for the year. Since you got personal in your response I will tell you that you sound like a typical male whose money i take time and time again. Of course I would pick a passive fish table with big ol stacks over a table full of short stacks but even more important in the “choose a table” decision, I would also pick a table (if I had the luxury) that has a lot of action over one where I am only winning blinds regardless of stack sizes.
I agree with the author that his turn bet was not the best choice. At 50% of the pot, if I were his opponent I would not put him on a strong hand. The author did not indicate his read on a player nor what the flop turn and river cards were. Sensing strength or weakness is a big part of the game regardless of your stack size. If you are just playing the 2 cards in your hand vs the board plus pot size then you put your own ceiling on your skill as a player. But then again, I am only a girl so what do I know, right? LOL
LoL.. Kim.. I am sorry! I thought about my post later and I was a kind of aggressive.
I mean… It is not your fault being a woman poker player!
I am kidding.
Nice to hear that you are up for the year.
We really appreciate your comments and believe me … I am sure we all like having a thinking female player in our company.
I thought I made the reads pretty clear in the article, but maybe not. I guess I will use that as potential feedback to use in my next post.
Sounds like it is time for Kim to start writing articles?
I can take the heat Mario… no problem!
But can you? Just kidding!
If anything happens next Friday at the Bellagio tourney I will be sure to write something on it. I like cash better but the husband wants to play and I enjoy the bragging rights if/when I outlast him!
I wish I could play like my husband sometimes. He has no fear. yesterday at HG he played the player and not his cards. In fact, he was playing blind until the other guy mucked after hubbys bet on the turn. This is how it played out… Husband raised UTG preflop (we were at the 300 NL table, blinds are 5 3) to 20 and announces he is playing blind. It folds to the BB who is this tight tight TIGHT (did I mention tight? lol) player and he calls. Now, this kids first mistake…if he has a good hand, he should have reraised but he is intimidated so he just calls. Flop is 6s7s4xs. BB checks husband bets 40 blind. BB calls. The next card is a Jx. BB checks and husband bets 100 and BB folds. BB shows AKo, hubby shows 8s10s. No one at the table knew we are husband and wife. When my husband got up 3 of the players just started ripping on his play. Little did they know who I was LOL and little did they know how often they got outplayed when they probably had a better hand than he did. I guess thats why he made it to day 4 of the wsop main event
correction 4x not 4xs… I dont remember the suit
Oh and Jennifer Tilly got her aces cracked on my day at Shooting Stars at Bay 101 by 5s…I guess not everyone thinks the same as you mario, but I am sure she wishes that guy who took her out in the first 20 mins or so of the tourney would have folded!